Perhaps Suliman Abu Ghaith could have gone with one of these :
Surah 9: 5- wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.
Or perhaps
Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
In any case, the actual justification or excuse is quite irrelevant. You should read James Loewen, (Lies my teacher told me) who argues convincingly that people make up their mind as suits them, and afterwards (almost unconsciously) find some justification for their positions. This is why people’s political opinions usually matches their economic interest, with arguments for trickledown economics being persuasive to the well off, and those in favor of more distributive approaches persuasive to the less well to do.
Come to think of it, you should real James Loewen for another reason. Much of his work is about how disconnected US history books and official history are from what actually happened. I would argue this holds true for every country. Perhaps after seeing this disconnect you will be able revisit you own country’s history with a more critical eye.

Mr.Akyol, your words are wise and intuitive. I have decided that religious radicals of all stripes are dangerously manipulative of the ignorant. Last night on the American CBS show 60 MINUTES, we were treated to an all too rare picture of the humiliating conditions for Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza. When I am reminded that my tax dollars support that immoral behavior, I am furious. It is not Jews versus Muslims (some Palestinians are Christian) It is a power play with economic policy that attempts to degrade an entire population. I am a life long Roman Catholic who honors the Prophet, Mevlana C.Rumi and Ghandi. The commandment: THOU SHALL NOT KILL is as straightforward as it gets. Israel knows all too well what they have done in the past and yesterday in Gaza. Keep writting on these topics

Mustafa,

Allah razi olsun!

Here is another fascist:

Chief Millitary Rabbi told israeli troops 'to show no mercy' in Gaza. AFP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090126/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazareligion

Taken,

I doubt you ever read Deuteronomy, Old Testament

20:13-20
13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword (even the unarmed ones):
14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

I can give you many more verses by "God of Moses".

Peace,

Behruz.

Behruz,

I know there are many "warlike" verse in the Bible, my point was simply that people usually make up their mind as suits their need, and then find some justification for what they do.

Loewen shows that drafted soldiers who were forced to go to Viet-Nam eventually came to agree with the government line, even if they did not have a strong opinion about it before they were drafted. Likewise, draft-dodgers came to agree with the war protesters often after they had made the decision to desert.

So my point was that the verses are not at fault, if they were not in the Bible, or in the Koran, something else could have justify throwing rockets on Israel or invading Gaza in the minds of the participants.

Mustafa,
what are you dong here? You surprise me by falling more and more towards moral relativism and sophism.

One thing is a personal opinion by a Rabbi (Rabbis are world famous for not finding two with the same opinion) another one is orthodox Sunni and Shia theology that says that to kill innocents (the Islamic term for those who do not accept Islam) is ok, while striking terror in their hearts is Allah's aim. I don't know if you never read what the 4 madhad say about jihad and subjugation of kafirs.

Moreover, you want people to believe that this idiotic Rabbi opinion is mainstream between Jews, while it is definitely not. The situation in the Arab world seems very different (see the whole bunch of statistical analysis about the accceptance of al-Qaeda and suicidical attacks against infidels in the Arab world)

Behruz Himo makes the same mistake. Moreover, the more he writes and compares the Torah (or the NT, even better), with the Qur'an, the more he exposes his ignorance of the two religions. He treats and reads the Torah the same way he reads the Qur'an. He cannot distinguish between a descriptive punctual, inspired book, and the very world of Allah. Does he know the difference between Tafsirs and the Talmud? Moreover, please Himo, continue showing us how easily you fall into the "tu quoque" logical error (btw...Mustafa, you much more smarter, but you risk somehow as well o make sometimes this mistake)

Barret thinks about everything in economical terms. Of course it has its importance, but you missed completly the islamic worldview, what the 4 orthodox school say about jihad (ps: they agree completly with al-qaeda worldview) and especially, about Islamic eschatology (the end of time will not come till all Jews will be killed (Bukhari 4.52.176, Muslim 41.6981))
Moreover, it seems that your Catholic faith is not very firm and orthodox...please consider talking to your spiritual father ;-)

Echnaton

Michael L. Barrett,

may Allah increase the number of people like you in America! God bless people of America!

With prayers for the disappearance of the apartheid regime from the pages of history,

Behruz.

Echnaton,

Absolutely agree with you I should and I do "... distinguish between a descriptive punctual, inspired book [Torah], and the very word of Allah {Qur'an]."

Indeed, Qur'an is verily a word of Allah, while Old Testament is a distorted word of great prophets, peace be upon them.

Can I believe that God would be telling stories about a prophet/saint Lot impregnating his daughters while drunk (Genesis 19:30-36)?

I rather think that one Jewish tribe wanted to rob another of common inheritance and corrupted the "Word of God".

Praises be to Allah the Almighty Who opened my heart to Islam!

May He, the Greatest, open the heart of Echnaton to Islam,

Behruz.

Behruz,
You continue showing to everyone that you either cannot understand what you read, or that you take single elements without considering the context. Moreover, you continue to show some lack of logic. Let’s analyze:
- I wrote that you “cannot distinguish between a descriptive punctual, inspired book and the very world of Allah"”. You take for granted that Allah is God, but for everyone except Muslims he isn’t. Every word is carefully chosen, but I see that you are too hasty in your reply to consider it.
- About Lot: you haven’t understood what the story is about. You like to take verses out of context and to smear Lot that is not a prophet neither for Yews, nor for Christians, but for Muslims yes, he definitely is. So, in the case he did wrong, you as a Muslim you have a problem. Anyway. You were too hasty as well in this case. If you would have read carefully, you would have seen that the story does not betray any fault on the part of Lot. He had spent all his time in Sodom and Gomorra preaching chastity and morality. So, would he commit such a crime as incest with his daughters? The very fact that the daughters considered it necessary to drug their father indicates that it is not a thing that he would have done if conscious. If there is a contradiction, a grave one, than it is in the Qur’an, as Lot offered his daughters (S. Hud 11:78 & al-Hijr 15:71) for marriage, but as a prophet of Islam, he was offering them to those who committed abominations (Hud 11:78). This seems rather incongruent to his status as a prophet of God. Or can prophets of God do whatever they want?...Nowhere in the Bible is Lot called a prophet. The fact that the Qur'an declares him a prophet does not mean Christians or Jews have to consider him a prophet as well. His image in the Bible is rather ambiguous, where he is only called "a righteous man", not a prophet.
- Considering your logic…as Muslim you believe that in your own words “[the] Qur'an is verily a word of Allah, while [the] Old Testament is a distorted word of great prophets”. So I would presume that the standard you apply to the Qur’an is sooooo much higher, bcs in your view Allah cannot even make a single minuscule error, otherwise he would not be the perfect being, the creator of everything, and he would not be any more God!

You know, Behruz, by putting the standard so high, it suffices a single tiny error to destroy your logic. But I ask you first, if previous Scriptures were corrupted by Kuffars, then why didn’t Allah get to preserve them?

Now just some examples of “tiny” errors: what would you say if Allah had to go taking some classes in Arabic bcs of some grammatical mistakes he made? Or some al-gebra classes bcs the inheritance law doesn’t sum up to 100%? Are you sure that he does still remember how many days it took to create the world? Did he make the earth flat or as a planet? In the same Surah you’ll find mysterious letters (that nobody knows what they stand for (Alif Lam Ra), and the statement that these “verses are set clear” (Qur’an 11:1, but there are a lot more). Sometimes you find a contradiction even in the same Sura (example: he forbids intercession, but the ayah after he prays for someone)! This is the reason why to try to reconcile this contradictions, the doctrine of abrogation has been introduced. You should know the case that for example even an antecedent ayah abrogates a later one (33:50 vs 33.52)!!!!! Unbelievable but true. About Errors and Contradiction, here you have a list of them:

http://kiki-e.sosblog.com/The-first-blog-b1/Errors-b1-tagErrors.htm
http://kiki-e.sosblog.com/The-first-blog-b1/Contradictions-b1-tagContradictions.htm

Uthman, the famous 3th caliph and compiler of the Qur'an said: "I see errors in it (the Qur'an)"!!!

Still no problems with your logic? ;-)

Thank you, Behruz, for your prayer “May He, the Greatest, open the heart of Echnaton to Islam”. I tried to open it, but it seems evident that he doesn’t want to….

Echnaton,

Do you have "logic" at all? The Bible must be read in context, but not The Qur'an!

Dr. Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat have already explained all "contradictions of the Qur'an" you can refer to them. Even stupid can understand that Qur'an when compared to The Bible is a book of science vs. a book of fairy tales.

"They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man........Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:7,17-18)"

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes (Deuteronomy 20:16-18)

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah. (Samuel 15:2-4)

…they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. (Hosea 13:16)

And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands. … And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire. (Ezekiel 23:45-48)

All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)

… I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. (Revelation 2:22-23)

And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms. (Hosea 2:4)

Note: I respect and believe in all prophets, peace be upon them, mentioned in The Bible. I reject that God or His prophets could have said such horrible things mentioned above. I respect all believers whether Christian or Jew, who praise God, do good deeds and refrain from evil. However, The Bible has been compiled by a pagan Emperor Constantine after 500 years of Jesus, peace be upon him. Constantine only included those Gospels into The Bible, which met his understanding of religion. As for Old Testament it has at least four authors and the original text was lost by Jews thousands years ago.

Behruz
First, you should not put into my mouth something I didn't say (about the Qur'an not having to be read into context...this is why I got through most of thh Tafsirs, from al-Jalalyn, to Ibn Abbas, to Ibn Kathir)...this again shows how carefully you read my comments...
Second, instead of jumping from one point to another, we would all appreciate if you could, at least once, reply to a subject you raised (as for Lot), instesad of just adding more issues and avoiding confrontation.
Third, I'm sure you had not read the links I proposed you, where in fact Naik's and Deedad's argumens are analyzed and replied.
Fourt, you said.."Even stupid can understand that Qur'an when compared to The Bible is a book of science vs. a book of fairy tales", so you consider yourself one of the stupids...hahah...I understand that you should again take algebra classes, bcs only so you could agree with your holy book
Fifth: you say that the Bible should be taken into context and...hahah...what are you listing?..just series of citations...thus a) either you have some problems with logic or b) you are incoherent. It seems that you just pick a list of verses and copy and paste it without thinking about it one second.
Sixth, please don't go into the deeds of prophets of the Bible, bcs if we should open the discussion about the deeds nad words of your prophet..then the Pandora box would be open...
Seventh...hahah it seems that you have read the "da Vinci Code"...here you show how ignorant you are of the Church's history and of the Councils (here, espscially about the role of Constantine)...might be these are the stories that you tell in Turkey or in islamic countries. But you know you should not even read some scientific research on it..it suffices to make a little googling on internet
Eight, you should have read of the foundings of 1948 in Qumran, where almost all the Torah, of the OT (and some probably parts of the NT (particle IQ5)) were found (2000 years old!), that practically were identical to the presumably and alleged "lost" OT. YOu should inform yourself before stating things that show your ignorance

Behruz, please, continue replying, everyone will be happy about yourself showing your ignorance of facts.

Echnaton,

hahaha... if you have read my posts more careful you would see that I referred to Lot, peace be upon him, as a prophet/saint - so I know he is regarded as prophet (nabi, but not rasul) in Islam and a saint in Christianity and Judaism.

hahaha... you compare your islamophobic (even tough I have never visited your blog) cheap blog with Dr Zakir Naik or scholar Ahmed Deedat.

hahaha... long before The Davinci Code I knew the facts regading compilation of the Bible from a book by Ali Vyacheslav Polosin, former high-ranking Russian Orthodox priest who converted to Islam in 1996. Moreover there is a book by a Christian leader during the Ottomans who converted to Islam as a result of his research of The Bible.

hahaha... you talk about 2000 years of the Qumran scripures, while the Old Testament was lost much earlier.

hahaha... continue to demonstarte your israel-type behavior.

hahaha... yesterday I was watching Islam&Life n PressTV: a jewish rabbi, a Christian tinker and a imam of a London mosque talked about ethics of war in accordance with their religions. The Christian and Muslim unequivocally condemned killing of civilians both by Hamas and by Israel, while the jewish rabbi said he can condemn Hamas but not Israel. hahaha...

hahaha... you talk about Mordechai Eliyahu as a marginalized rabbi. What about Chief Millitary Rabbi who told israeli troops 'to show no mercy' in Gaza. AFP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090126/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazareligion

hahaha... you (in the plural form) have become even worse than militant salafis.

hahaha... watching Euronews now: they are showing that israeli Arabs are treated as third-class citizens. jews are saying that israel is for jews.

Behruz.

Behruz
it seems that you continue repeating your mantra..it is a hopeless task to talk to you..
It suffices this one example to show you again that your believes are different from reality: Your believe that Lot is regarded as a "..a saint in Christianity and Judaism..."...shows how ignorant you are of Christianity and Judaism.
So, you are free to believe what you want, in fact it corroborates your wolrdview, but actually it is so far from reality. All the other points you touch are mere opinions, and thus, they stay what they are. You have not read one thing I wrote you, but you are willing to judge! wow...you can laugh as much as you want...but one day, reality will overturn you.
regards.
echnaton

Behruz I could not resist to show to everyone your rare logical pearls!

".. if you have read my posts more careful you would see that I referred to Lot, peace be upon him, as a prophet/saint"...You miss completly the point bcs I gave you an answer just concerning imagine who?...Lot (but you missed to reply on the details)

"..your islamophobic (even tough I have never visited your blog) cheap blog with Dr Zakir Naik or scholar Ahmed Deedat."...HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT IF YOU EVEN ADMIT NOT HAVING READ MY BLOG?...amazing logic! FIrst read, then judge...

"... long before The Davinci (sic: Da Vinci)Code I knew the facts regading compilation of the Bible from a book...who converted to Islam in 1996. Moreover there is a book by a Christian leader during the Ottomans who converted to Islam as a result of his research of The Bible."...a) the Da Vince Code has a very long history (it's nothing new, the myths there have their origins from the Middle Age, Dan Brown had even to defend himself agains plagiary); b) bcs you talk about someone converting, doesn't mean anything...you cannot imagine how many Muslims convert but fail to say anything about it...otherwise they would be a head shorter. Moreover if we start this stupid game of citing some converts..there would be some intellectuals (even ex-profs from al-azhar)that have converted (ps: had to change their name and live under anonimity...).Does this help our discussion? I doubt (you can spare us this cheap tricks please). You assume this logic: someone converting to Islam is intelligent, somone converting out from Islam is stupid...you assume too much my dear

"...you talk about 2000 years of the Qumran scripures, while the Old Testament was lost much earlier."...YOur logic is amazing...how could it be that the OT was lost much earlier if the oldest copy we have dates from 2000 AD? (if we apply this strange logic...we would always go back looking for the oldest scripture..we would never end..and this holds true as well for the Qur'an). Moreover, as you say that they were corrupted, please, you, as a sustainer of this theory have to show us the original, uncorrupted copies (as I showed you, this goes against what even Muhammad attested, that the copies he had IN HIS HAND were true (630AD:...) . So how could older copies be missed if we ghave the whole OT fromm 2000 years ago and Muhammad testifies that they are ok? Btw..you didn't reply me why the smallest error in the Qur'an wouldn't invalidate the whole Scripture...I can understand you...

"... continue to demonstarte your israel-type behavior"...ad hominem attacks show that you are short of arguments (instead of going into my questions)

"...while the jewish rabbi said he can condemn Hamas but not Israel..." Cherry pick is the bst you can do? I suppose that you never read or understood Islam's eschatology (again (for the 3th time...read Hamas statue (that have orthodox value, and are not personal opinions)

"... you talk about Mordechai Eliyahu as a marginalized rabbi..."..please explain me why you complain about that..do Islamist not want to dye as martirs in order to get to heaven (and their families)?...so they have to be happy about dying as shadids..(following their logic). But then, why do you and them complain?

".. you (in the plural form) have become even worse than militant salafis."...again...an ad hominem attack, while you do nothing to defuse your own orthodox islamic ideology (just complaining and complaining..uf uf)

".. watching Euronews now: they are showing that israeli Arabs are treated as third-class citizens. jews are saying that israel is for jews."...a) what is strange about that? have you ever heard about yews walking free in the street of Jeddah or Damascus? Have you ever heard of an arab saying that Saudi Arabia or Syria is not for Arabs? b) Euronews is leftist and pro arab, but of course, you missed to quote it...

Reg

How can I argue with such logigic?

BBC is pro-Arab, Euronews is pro-Arab, CNN is pro-Arab when shows Amanpour's God Warriors or scenes of israeli massacres...

Its time for jews to understand that ALL people, but jews, hate to see how children are murdered in hundreds!

War cannot survive without Religion.