The problem is not Erdogan and AK P but the "Dogan cartel". Mr Dogan and his media cartel want the government to act as their errand boys. Sry, but Mr Erdogan is not Tansu Ciller, Suleyman Demirel, Bulent Ecevit or Mesut Yilmaz. He is truly the tough democrat from Kasimpasa who fights for the turkish people.

When the military, kemalists in the parlament and Dogan media get to cocky, I as a democrat needs "Erdogan from Kasimpasa". Mr Erdogan has to follow the rules of the game against the anti-democrats in Turkey.

The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon is falling. A democratic Turkey is taking shape. The white path has been followed by:

Terakkiperver fikra!
Adnan Menderes!
Turgut Özal!

Today Erdogan and Gul follow the white path and the end is near!

Mr Akyol:

I did not like "Night in Bangkok". Listen to this tune:

Asian Dub Foundation- Jericho
Here is the lyrics:

The politics we make it cuts across borders
We never make politics to someone else’s orders
Plenty of issues on the agenda
If you want to lend a helping hand
You’re always told to shut up and dance
But you have to change this-take a chance
Turn the tables,
We know you’re able
Don’t just consume
Make your own tune.

The politics, we use it
We’re making a stand
I wouldn’t call this a green and pleasant land
A conscious response is what we demand
Challenge the system and those in command
Express your opinion
It’s your domain
If you fail to do this you are partly to blame
My heart is beating
No retreat
The battle continues
We’ll suffer no defeat
This war you’ve been waging
It’s time we were raging
In our minds and on the streets....

I want Mustafa "Kemalisthunter" Akyol back!;)

The obstacles to Islamo-Liberalism are Liberals and Islamo-Liberals in particular. And nothing else! This is not a joke. I am quite serious in making this remark.

I am truly horrified by Mr. Osman's fanaticism. What is the difference between his stand and that of an ultra-nationalist or that of an ultra-Kemalist? Unfortunately, our educational system breeds misinformed and misguided political "creatures" of this kind for self serving politicians to feed on. It is truly sad for Turkey. I cannot see any good coming out of this kind of pawn mentality.

Currently, AKP is happy that the majority of the pawns are on its side but forgets the fact that countries feeding on this kind of illiteracy and fanaticism are doomed to fail sooner or later. Perhaps, AKP should learn from the failures of ultra-Kemalists it has been criticizing vehemently for so long, and realize that "the light at the end of the tunnel is just a freight train coming their way."

Osman's remarks are typical of a biased, fanatical mentality that blinds some people to mistakes and even crimes committed by their darlings. What kind of "democracy" is this? Those guilty in corruption must pay for this. Full stop. Period. All else - the familiar wailing about military, Kemalists, Ergenekon, Dogan, etc. is both pathetic and ridiculous. Eventually Erdogan will be thrown out to the dustbin of the history - all because of his greed, intolerance, and lack of basic civic manners.

Dear Cingöz and Parviz:

How can I be a fanatic when I want Turkey to join EU? I demand more cultural rights for my kurdish and alevi countrymen. Further more I want the civilians to have total control over the kemalist military in Turkey. I also want the liberal politics on economy to go on in Turkey. I am also one of them who want Turkey to act as a "big brother" for our kurdish brothers in northern Iraq /KRG. I want good relations with Armenia because I think that all armenians should consume turkish products. What I am talking about is simple. I want Turkey to "invade" Armenia and KRG with companies and not with tanks.

Now I would like to tell you about my familys fate. My mother is turkish, originally from Eskisehir, but her family emigrated to Ankara after the War of Indenpendce. My father is a Konya -kurd, his clan was deported or emigrated from Adiyaman. In the 50s my granfather was politically active in Democratic Party. When the Kemalist Republic could not accept the will of the turkish people and started to arrest DP memebers, my grandfather had to leave his homeland. He lost all his savings and became poor. He had to go to Europe for work. First he came to Germany but did not like their mentality so he decided to travel to Sweden. In Sweden he got a job and lived in a barrack for more than 10 years. 47 years old he died from asbest cancer. In 1970 my father came to Sweden and worked in swedish industry.

Now let me ask you why my grandfather had to leave is companies, his village in Turkey and homeland from the very the first beginning?

We all know what the Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon did in 1971 and 1980. From 1960- 2000 we all know how the The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon divided the people, created antagonism among different political groups (and religious groups) and "created" the terrorist organization PKK.

Today I have a hardcore kemalist and a turkish ultra nationalist relatives on my mothers side. On my father side I have PKK supporters. So my uncle who loved my kurdish father is a stupid ultra-nationalist. My kurdish uncle loves my ultra nationalist turkish uncle. When I travel to Denmark to visit my kurdish relatives I have to spend several hours to explaine for them why PKK is a shitty organisation and that they should not support their agenda.

Now let me ask you why my uncles are ultra-nationalists, hardcore kemalists, marxist leninist PKK follower(kurtcus)?

I also have a rich kurdish relative in Ankara. He has a big company but watch ROJ TV (I call it sectarian gominist TV)in the evenings. Turkey gave him his wealth so why is he watching ROJ TV?

Why did my grandfather had to leave his beloved homeland in the 60:s?

I was born and raised in Sweden, Until 2003 I never talked about my second homeland Turkey with my swedish friends. What was there to talk about? They just asked my about torture in prisons, why Turkey oppressed the kurds and about the poor economy in the country.

Today, I as a swede and turkish citizen can talk about Turkey with my friends, politicians, journalists and others in Sweden. I can inform them that Turky is a candidate country to EU, that the turkish economy is the eighteenth biggest in the world,I can tell them that the turkish government want a solution to the kurdish issue and describe the PKK- diaspora as a sect that do not represent the kurds in Turkey.

After 48 years I can see a light in the tunnel. Thanks to AK P!!

Democracy will defeat The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon. A peaceful struggle where the masses in Turkey get educated and enlightened. Ofcourse this process will take time. Maybe 10 or even 15 years.

Rest in peace Kazim Karabekir, Adnan Menderes and Turgut Özal! The descendants to the Ottomans are establishing a DEMOCRATIC Republic which will take it place as a EU memeber one day!

Welcome to The War of Indenpendence Part II:

During the first War of Indenpendence our forefathers fought to establish the republic with gund and cannons.

The second War of Indenpence will transform the Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon to a democratic one. The most effective weapon will be democracy, liberalism and conservatism during this battle.

Mr. Osman,

I am truly sympathetic to your story, and I value all the ideals you passionately outlined. I am only criticizing you for your blind and militant loyalty to AKP.

I would like to kindly remind you that AKP is merely a political party with its own agenda. Don't let your emotions blind you; otherwise, you will overlook AKP's mistakes and failings in meeting its promises. Remember, the AKP government achieved almost nothing in terms of economic, political and social reforms outlined in the 2004 Copenhagen meetings. (just skim through the Progress Reports published on the EU website). Instead, AKP got tangled in a highly divisive headscarf issue, secularism, and etc. for a variety of reasons largely related to intra-party conflicts. What has AKP accomplished in terms of granting more civil rights to the Kurdish population since 2004? Do you see any links between the recent conflicts with the Kurdish population and the absence of any civil reforms? Perhaps the Kurdish population lost their fate in AKP since 2004? Do you seriously buy AKP's argument that they face fierce opposition when in fact they maintain a significant amount of seats in the Parliament?

If you analyze events a little bit more critically, you will realize that AKP has failed in achieving quite a few of the ideals you stand for. Perhaps AKP is not the political party to accomplish your ideals. When and if the time comes, will you be able to switch to another party if you maintain your current militant loyalty?

All I am saying is that if you continue with your current uncritical party loyalty and get tangled up with artificial categorizations invented by political actors and their beneficiaries, including Mr. Akyol, you will become their pawn in their self-serving struggle for power, attention and recognition. Don't let the political parties feed you with nonsense prophecies, such as second revolution, war of independence and etc. Let the political parties serve you, and not the other way around.

Dear Sir

First of all I would like to thank you for your great website, where I learned a lot about Turkey from the end of the Ottoman Empire to today.

I always enjoy reading your ideas, although I do not always agree with you. A topic on which I fully disagree is alcohol. It seems to me that in your opinion 'drinking = decadence', if you allow me to summarize it that way.

I am also very much against 'binge drinking', i.e. drinking for the sake of getting drunk. However, if a person really knows how to drink in moderation, he (or she) will never misbehave, but instead will reach a state of deep happiness. In order to attain that genuine bliss, you first need to be informed about how alcohol is produced, for example that a bottle of wine requires one year of hard labour.

In conclusion, I would like to quote two writers:

an American (Ernest Hemingway): Wine is one of the most civilized things in the world and one of the most natural things of the world that has been brought to the greatest perfection, and it offers a greater range for enjoyment and appreciation than, possibly, any other purely sensory thing.”

and an Iranian (Omar Khayyam):
“Here with a Loaf of Bread beneath the Bough,
A Flask of Wine, a Book of Verse - and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness -
And Wilderness is Paradise enow.”

kind regards, and keep this wonderful site running!

Yazdgatsby

Dear Cingöz:

Thanks for your sympathy, but there are stories which are worst. The man who is behind the torture of thousands during a coup in 1980 is still free and lives a pleasant life in Bodrum. His name is Kenan Evren. The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon uses taxes paid by the turkish people to pay his pension every month.

When AK P came to power in 2002 the opposition CHP, kemalist military and bureaucracy were calm and pending. But it turned out that the kemalists in the military and bureaucracy had already started to plan a coup in 2002. Several years later we became aware of all the coups attempts, attempted murders against primeminister Erdogan and president Gul. We also know that the Ergenekon investigation has uncovered evidence linking Ergenekon to the assassination of Hrant Dink, the killing of the italian priest in Trabzon and the christian missionaries in Malatya.

It turned out that Ergenekon (the ulusalci and kemalist terroristgroup) had killed the secular judge in 2006, attempted to kill the former YÖK president Erdogan Tezic and carried out the grenade attack at the Cumhuriyet Daily kown for its sectarian secularism.

Even PKK was pending during the period of 2002-2007 and just waited for the kemalist military to carry out their coup and overtrhrow the AK P government. Ofcourse this would favor the organisation, radicalize the kurds and strenghten the support for PKK. But this did not happen because Erdogan and his party stood up for the turkish democracy.

Before the elections in 2002 HADEP/DTP even asked the turkish military for cooperation against the ”Islamists” (AK P) in eastern Turkey. The military declined their invitation.

Now we all remember the E- threat on Turkish militarys home page and how the constitution court ”raped” the constitution and prevented AK P from electing Gul as president.

How many billion dollars did Turkey loose during these évents? Billions and billions!

Just months before the elections in 2007 PKK showed up and carried out several attacks (Why did they chose to be calm and pedning until the elections ?). Leyla Zana showed up and said that it is time to divide Turkey while some generals talked about invading northern Iraq/KRG which would have postpone the elections with one year.

The kemalists, but also the apoists (PKK) did everything in their power to sabotage the elections.

Well, PKKs attacks led to nationalism among many turks and I sincerely beleive that Leyla Zanas statement about dividing Turkey gave MHP aroung 14 % of the votes (5 million votes).

Since the elections in 2007 until today DTP has done everything in their power to provoke turks, described AK P as the biggest threat to the kurdish people (By the way, AK P is the biggest kurdish party in the world) and said that the kurdish issue could not come to a solution as long as Öcalan is in prison.

Dear Cingöz, there is no ”democratic room” for me to discuss AK Ps mistakes when the opposition want to overthrow a party which got 47% of the votes in a election held in 2007. To be honset I can not talk factual matters when AK P risks coups, murder attempts and God knows what!There is no space to do that.

I have to be a ”partizan” when the biggest opposition party defends a terrorisgroup as Ergenekon and says that he want to be their lawyer (I am talking about Baykal).

How can I criticize AK Ps economic, political and social reforms when they have NATOs second biggest army against them together with a kemalist bureaucracy?

I am not taling about "revolution" and overtrhrowing a democratically elected government through a military coup.The kemalists are!

Since the elections in 2007 there has been only one thing that I have expected from the AK P.; To stand up for the turkish democracy at any time!

How can I demand anything else when the party which got 16 million 500.000 votes risked closure by The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon?

The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon accuse my proud contrymen of being shari-supporter and radical islamists!

You talk about the headscarf but why could the Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon not accept that 411 memebers of the parlament wanted to lift the ban?

According to me the biggest threat and enemy to the turkish democracy is the military. Look at Basbugu who talks to much. Who the hell is he to hold press conferences every month to inform the public? Inform the public about what? Polics? Is Basbugu a elected politican or a ordinary person in authority?

Maybe the turkish military should establish a party? Oh sry, there is no need for that because they have CHP and also MHP.

Is Turkey a BANANA Republic? Maybe Turkey will become a Cucumber- Republic?

Let await and see the development in the Ergenekon investigation. Basbugu who talks to much has nothing to say about all the members of the turkish army who turned out to be terrorists and coup planners. He also dont have a good answer to why PKK can operate in cities lika Tunceli, Bingöl and Diyrabakir. Hello TSK! Please, can you focus on fighting terrorist instead of talking about poltics?!!! Pelase!

The rule of the democratic game is cristal clear. AK P follows the rules, but as a democratically elected party they have the kemalist military, kemalist bureaucracy, kemalist opposition (CHP and MHP), PKK and the Dogan cartel against them.

It is up to AK P to decide my fate and future attitude towards Turkey. If AK P fails and dont give me EU reforms, dont give my alevis and kurds cultural rights and let Basbugu act like a politican I as a turkish swede will get hostile towards The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon aka The Cucumber Republic!

Cingöz:

Accoring to polls AK P would get 53% of the votes if anelection was held today.

Why do I and my people still support AK P if they have failed?

What Turkey need is a transformation from a kemalist republic to an democratic one ( My dear Memo Altan calls it Ikinci Cumhuriyet- beautiful :)).

I am right wing and I get very happy when CHP (PKK has DTP and Ergenekon has CHP ;) ) looses support among my people. But I am also aware of the fact that Turkey needs a DEMOCRATIC opposition party. So I welcome an other leftist party. Maybe ÖDP will be an alternative one day?

Now our people have to unite and fight against The Kemlist Republic of Ergenekon!

Turkeys present situation resembles the movie ”Kibar Feyzo”.

The film is about Kibar Feyzo who (Kemal Sunal- the man who thought me turkish and shaped my first political views when I was a small kid;) ) leaves his village after a fight/ disputes with the village leader (military, CHP and bureaucracy). He travels to Istanbul where he gets aware of the modern world (EU- liberalism, human rights, ) and that he has rights as an individual. When he has saved enough money he travels back to his village. He tells the villagers about the modern world and all the villagers get enlightened. The villageleader punish him and deport him once again. Everytime Kibar Feyzo lives in the city he gets aware of new ideas which he takes home and tries to implement in the village. Now the villageleader (The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon) understands that deporting him is not a good idea because everytime he comesamong the other villagers. After three visits to Istanbul the village leader decide that Kibar Feyzo must stay in the village under his control. Kibar Feyzo does everything in his power to get INTO EU, but the village leader stops him.

He really does everything in his power to get into EU, watch ;) !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghOSjwgFZKw

Kibar Feyzo does everything right during his struggle against the oppressing villageleader until he take his rifle and shoot him.

He uses force, get prosecuted and sentenced to life.From prison his wife, mother and the other villagers let him know that the former villageleader was much ”better” than the present.

Kbar Feyzo got life while the new villageleader turned out to be a bigger oppresser than the former.

The struggle against The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon must be peaceful. The democrats in Turkey must have patience.The unity among the people must be maintained. The integration between the west and eastern Turkey must continue and the sunni majority must convince their alevi countrymen that kemalism is nothing for them.

Mr Mistik Akyol:

I do not ask for an article about the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, Basbugu, where you ”bitchslap” him for his interference into politics, but I demand on!

Cingöz:

Now it is high time for AK P to play Mehter-Hucum Marsi, open the parlament and carry out EU reform.

Or else I will get depressed and drown my sorrows in alcohol.

Yes I am emotional, but that does not stop me from contacting journalists, swedish politicians and academician and inform them about The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon. Thats my tiny tiny tiny contrubution for the democracy in a country that have not given me a shit.

Erdo, Firato, Ciceko ve Gullo!!!!

Durmak yok, yola devam

In God We Trust!

Cingöz:

It is not up to me to revise AK Ps politics. It is up to the opposition to do that. Unfortunately the main opposition party CHP is not capable of doing that. Instead they ask the military to carry out coups. The "Huns" in MHP set out "headscarftraps" and just waits for PKKs provactions so they can pursue politics based on that.

The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon has cost Turkey billions and billions of dollars and you want me to be more critical towards AK Ps politics?

I was a small boy when Aziz Nesin said that 60% of the turks were stupid. After the statement he made a correction and said that 40% of the turks are clever.

If Aziz Nesin was alive he would say that 47% of the turks are stupid while 53% are clever.

According to a poll AK P would get 53% of the votes if a elections was held today in Turkey.

Osman,

I think you are full of misdirected anger and in search for an enemy that is artificially created for you. A lot of your comments are based on speculations (some of which I admit may be true). But you leave no room for yourself for mistakes.

There is always the other side of the medallion. Consider the possibility that some of the accusations about AKP can also be true. Remember the roots of AKP. They are not necessarily the most democracy admirers. I advise you to be on the moderate side. When people are angry, poor, and hungry they are vulnerable to abuse and exploitation. Remember, how Hitler came to power? with the democratic votes of angry, hungry and poor German population. That may explain your question of how AKP secured that many votes in Turkey. People are not stupid. They are simply hungry, angry and poor. Just like I said before. We need to use political parties for our own benefit, and should not become their pawns.

It may be easy to be this militant when you have another country to run to but unfortunately I do not. Revolution mongering and misguided outbursts of anger may not affect your life but it highly polarizes my life. Would you want to live in a country where you would be tagged as a member of Kemalists or radical Islamists? I don't even think a lot of people even know what these concepts actually mean. Have you ever asked that question to yourself?

Osman,

I am not going to be as charitable and generous with you as Mr.Cingoz. Instead I will tell you frankly: your long, confusing and angry tirades are of no use whatsoever. This kind of demagoguery is pouring daily from the Islamist press. I don't give a damn about it.

Now put aside your demagoguery and give me a short, concise answer: does being a "democrat" justify corruption and embezzlement? Does being a "tough democrat from Kasimpasa" justify threatening media and calling for boycotts of certain newspapers (which, by the way, are read by a significant number of people). Yes or no? Depending on how you answer, I (and surely many others) will judge your democratic sincerity.

Parviz:

Erdogan said that people should not buy newspapers which write lies. I agree with him. I dont even visit Dogans Medias webpages. On Turkish Daily News there are only three writers worthty to read. They are Mustafa Akyol, Cengiz Candar and Cengiz Aktar(I met him in Sweden once. A true democrat but I did not like his attitude haha)

Hurriyet- well I also like to watch photos of nude women but not in a newspaper ;).

Milliyet: Old school communists from the 60s has been given a place in this paper by the oligarch Dogan.

Now do you really want to know why The Kemalist Repblic of Ergekon (which the Dogan Cartel is a part of) fight the AK P government? Read!

Persistently high corruption in low-income countries amounts to an “ongoing humanitarian disaster”

The Transparency International CPI measures the perceived levels of public-sector corruption in a given country and is a composite index, drawing on different expert and business surveys. The 2008 CPI scores 180 countries (the same number as the 2007 CPI) on a scale from zero (highly corrupt) to ten (highly clean).

Denmark, New Zealand and Sweden share the highest score at 9.3, followed immediately by Singapore at 9.2. Bringing up the rear is Somalia at 1.0, slightly trailing Iraq and Myanmar at 1.3 and Haiti at 1.4.

While score changes in the Index are not rapid, statistically significant changes are evident in certain countries from the high to the low end of the CPI. Looking at source surveys included in both the 2007 and 2008 Index, significant declines can be seen in the scores of Bulgaria, Burundi, Maldives, Norway and the United Kingdom.

Similarly, statistically significant improvements over the last year can be identified in Albania, Cyprus, Georgia, Mauritius, Nigeria, Oman, Qatar, South Korea, Tonga and Turkey.
----------------------------
My motherland Sweden is one of the countries which gets the highest score. We are honest in Sweden ;)!

But look at my Fatherland, Turkey! Significant improvements can be identified!

This is AK Ps Turkey! And this is why the Dogan Cartel is fighting them! Sry Dogancim, but the AK P government will not "sell out" Turkey to you!

Dogan exploit his monopolistic media to benefit his business interests.

Two weeks ago Dogan publicly announced that he had visited Erdogan and said to him that he was willing to make more investments in land he had bought in central Istanbul.

Is this normal in any other democratic country? Why does he discuss his business with the primeminister ?

Mustafa Akyol: What is your opinion?

Dear Mrs Cingöz (I think that you are a woman). You have a very good point but it is not up to AK P to revise themself. Its up to the opposition but they just want the army to carry out coups.

Maybe the solution to Turkeys opposition-problem is a new letfist party? Unfortunately the turkish left thinks that it is still the 60s. They are also kemalists so there are some big problems. Maybe guys like me should establish a ny leftist party despite the fact that I am right wing (I vote for Christian Democrats or det Moderate Party in Sweden)?

Turkeys opposition-problem is extremely precarious.

The main problem is the system in Turkey. Le tus read one of Mr Akyols writings from march 2008:

Introducing the Soviet Socialist Republic of Ankara ( I call it Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon)

http://www.thewhitepath.com/archives/2008/03/introducing_the_soviet_socialist_republic_of_ankara.php

I like your conciliatory attitude and objectivity and therefore I want to dedicate this song to you (I have changed it a bit and I assume that you are a woman ;) )

Cingöz- Elton John

Hey Cingöz is it cold
In your little corner of the world
You could roll around the globe
And never find a warmer soul to know

Oh I saw you by the wall
Ten of your kemalist soldiers in a row
With eyes that looked like ice on fire
The human heart a captive in the snow

Oh Cingöz you will never know anything about my home
Ill never know how good it feels to hold you
Cingöz I need you so
Oh Cingöz is the other side of any given line in time
Counting ten kemalist soldiers in a row
Oh no, Cingös youll never know

Do you ever dream of me
Do you ever see the letters that I write
When you look up through the wire
Cingöz do you count the stars at night

And if there comes a time
Guns and gates no longer hold you in
And if youre free to make a choice
Just look towards the west and find a friend

Here is the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9wBEA_PYnE

Hopefully Turkey will become an EU memeber one day!

So, Osman, a German court convicting a bunch of "good Muslims" for embezzlement is a lie? Even the most pro-AKP European magazine, The Economist, has written an article "Less than white" referring to the AK - white. Even a hard-line Islamist Bulent Arinc has criticised corruption in AKP. Haven't you ever hear about it? Don't you read newspapers? Before writing angry comments, be at least consistent in your criticisms.

So you failed the test: you are not democrat. You are just another hypocrite. Kemalist system might have its imperfections. But what you represent is just inmoral, because it is irresponsible. It is people like you who always bring Turkey to the brink of civil law. And it is the military who steps in to comply with its patriotic duty to rid Turkey from all kind of maniacs. Democracy is not tantamount to supporting dangerous idiots.

Parviz:

Congratulations! You have expressed the beauty of the Kemalist mind:

"And it is the military who steps in to comply with its patriotic duty to rid Turkey from all kind of maniacs."

Mashallah!

Is the turkish military at war with the turkish people or what?

I get very poetic when i read your comments. The Kemalist Republic of Ergenekon is now trying to turn off the light of the lighthouse. They think that it will weaken AK P.

The Lighthouse (Deniz Feneri):

Follow us Follow us
Follow us Follow us

Can you feel us?

Follow us Follow us
Democracy Democracy

Follow us Follow us
Follow us Follow us

Come to us children
Your wildest dreams, we have it all
Can you feel us?

Democracy Democracy

Follow us Follow us
Can you feel us?

Follow us
We are the light, the shines

Follow us Follow us
Children of the night step into the light

Follow us
Come! Come out of the shadows into the light

Follow us Follow us
Come! Come out of the darkness! Come out of the darkness, there is a paradise!

Follow us

We will guide you to the promise land, I have seen it, the mountain top is over there
Come closer to the speaker

Follow us

Look my children, look to the sky and tell me what you see,

Glory for days

Follow me

Happiness for days
Can you feel us?

Love for days
Follow us

We got what you need!

Parviz, you trust the military but I trust the people. If you can present a decrease in AK P votes when this Deniz Feneri story has been sorted out, I promise you that I will stop writing here on Akyols blog.

Trust your people, not a public authority. The military should do their job, i.e chaing PKK terrorists and nothing else.

Do we have a deal dear friend?

Osman, I asked you specific questions. You failed to answer any single of them. This is because you really have no answer. There is nothing you could pose as a counter-argument except your ridiculous "poetry". So basically I am no longer going to waste my time arguing with you. Your approach to debate just shows your pathetic fanatical mindset, totally uncapable of any critical self-reflection. So that´s it.

If the choice is between the military and the "osmans" I am on the side of the military. And I don´t care the least about what you have to say about it.

And do me a favour: stop calling me "friend".

Give me your questions again. You accuse the government of being corrupt, but there is no verdict. You hate EU but use a judgment from Germany against the government. I could mention the enormous corruption in CHP, but I will not. Consider me as a liberal-conservative democrat who want Turkey to become a true democracy. That is what we should talk about.

You do not need to choose between the military and the ottomans. In a democracy fanatics can not take over a country. In Turkey secualirist kemalist fanatics still rule the country. Thats my problem.

Ofcourse you are my friend and fellow contrymen. You are my political opponent but that do not mean that I have to hate you.

By the way, what is "conservative liberal"? It sound like "white-African American".

I also do not understand "Islamo-liberal". It suggests some kind of a paradox that I cannot understand. How meaningful is it to categorize religions according to the level of their tolerance - I am just assuming that is what is emphasized in "islamo-liberal".

Is Islamo-liberal a fancy way of saying tolerant Muslim who is simply seeking more religious freedom of expression?

Perhaps we should all drop religious attributes in our political discourse, and adopt a more sensible way of approaching our rights (freedom of religion, expression, and etc) But that requires all to accept freedom of religion as simply another right, which can be regulated and to some extent restricted as in all democratic regimes. However, I dont think this approach is acceptable by the "islamo-liberals" whom I think seek for privileged treatment. So I am speculating that "islamo-liberals" are liberal insofar as the Islamic principles are given priority. Otherwise, would there be a category of "islamo-liberal" since liberalism as a concept is equidistant to to all religious norms and beliefs?

Osman,
it is really annoying that you don't read what opponents say and then rush to conclusions.

How can I hate the EU if I work of it? And it is not me who said that AKP is corrupt, but none other than Arinc and The Economist - the AKP's European mouthpiece! It is the Islamist media and people like you who call the Ergenekon suspects "terrorists" before there is a verdict!

What don't you first try to be consistent in your own logic, before hurling wild accusations against your opponents?

I don't care about labels you put on yourself. Like Cingoz, I believe they are all nonsense. The bottom-line is that neither you nor your islamist friends are even close to being democratic. That's the point.

Parviz:

Why do you call me an islamist?

Do you vote for CHP?

Why can women in France wear the headscarf and study at the universities?

As a AK P supporter my opponents are CHP, MHP and DTP supporters and not generals and other high-ranking officers in the military trying to overthrow a democratically elected party. I am a lawyer and I have witnessed the 367-verdict, AK P closure verdict the headscarf verdict when the kemalists in the Constitution Court ran over the parlament.

The Kemalist state of Ergenekon has been at war with the turkish people since 1923. Kemalistan do not care about the will of the people. A sect is running the country and oppressing all groups. They even discriminate their biggest supporters- the alevis.

Why can you not just accept that Kemalism is a invention from the 20s and 30s based in the dominant ideologies in Europe and Russia- i.e. fascism and Sovjet communism?

I do not have any problems with you having tremendous respect for Ataturk, but you must understand that 80-85% of the population in Turkey are not pleased with the state ideology -Kemalism.

And EU and USA can not afford a Turkey with a oppressed people because this will lead to radicalism.

Kemalistan is at war with AK P because they are democratizing Turkey. That is why PKK also is doing everything in their power to weaken AK P. PKK need a oppressing Kemalistan to uphold their influence.

In the end everything is economy. The military and the kemalist bureaucracy have ther business interests. The kemalist oligarchs do not want true capitalism in Turkey because ccompetition is not good for their business. PKK want to be able to continue their drug trafficking behind the conflict.

Osman,

Please excuse my analogy, but I think the way you build your arguments is similar to that of a bad cook prepares a dish. You go to a store, buy every spice and ingredient you see on the shelves (along with those are handed to you as a promotion) without any concern of how they would all mix together, put them in a mixing bowl, and cook them without any recipe. Not only is the end result visually displeasing but also inedible. So all your efforts, time, and expensive ingredients are simply wasted. In other words, although I agree with some of your arguments they are in general inedible simply because the way you cook them.

More nonsense from Osman. Ever heard about Enlightenment? Ataturk's principles have nothing to do with either fascism or communism. It is only islamists and their extreme leftist friends who utter this rubbish. The problem is that Kemalists after Ataturk and Inonu have become lazy? and largely abandoned the Ataturk's revolution. That's why we see how religion is rearing its ugly head again, and pokes its nose in people's lives again.

Dear Cingöz:

You do not need to excuse yourself because you are right.

You think that I am confused!? Yes I am, but there is a cure for my total confusion when it comes to Turkey. The cure is a new democratic constitution without any ugly trace of kemalism.

Kemalistan must transform to a democratic republic. As long as Kemalistan is alive I will continue to be confused and schizofrenic soul.

Tsar Nicholas I of Russia called the Ottoman Empire for the "sick man of Europe". Well,
Turkey got sicker after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Since 1923 Turkey is a true schizofrenic republic. The state (brain) must change! The brain is sick while the rest of the body is very fit. But without the head the rest of the body can not function.

To get well we need a strong medicine. I think that EU is the right medicine. The AK P government has given the EU-medicine to the schizofrenic Kemalist Republic. Then the crazy Kemalist brain tried to fight the medicine by creating ”internal body chaos”. Now all parts of the body have to unite and fight the schizofrenic and crazy brain.

Hopefully AK P will inject more of the beutiful EU medicine to Kemalistan-

AK Party:

GIVE ME MORE EU REFORMS- MAKE ME HAPPY! FIGHT THE KEMALISTAN WITH DEMOCRACY!

SAVE MY ALEVI COUNTRYMEN WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLUNTARY HOSTAGES IN THE KEMALIST PRISON FOR SO LONG! GIVE THEM RIGHTS WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN DENIED BY THE KEMALIST REPUBLIC SINCE 1923!

GIVE MY KURDISH ALEVIS IN DERSIM ( I DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE NAME TUNCELI-IRON HAND) REDRESS!

GIVE THE KURDS CULTURAL RIGHTS IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE! LET THEM FEEL THAT TURKEY IS THEIR MOTHERLAND ONCE ESTABLISHED BY THEIR FOREFATHERS! GIVE THEM RIGHTS SO MY KURDS CAN BE SAVED FROM PKKs MARXIST- LENINIST NATIONALISM.

CRUSH THE ”KEMALIST SECUALRISM” CREATED WITH ONE PURPOSE- TO OPPRESS THOSE WHO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION! INTRODUCE FREEDOM OF RELIGION!

Kemalism radicalize all groups in Turkey because it oppress them. The kurdish alevis support PKK, the turkish alevis support the militarist party CHP because they consider them as a guardian against sunni extremism. But what creates sunni extremism? The answer is a communist like oppression of sunnis in Turkey. Why do a great number of our kurdish citizen support DTP (political wing of PKK). The answer is that one of the six arrows of Kemalism is base upon denying the kurdish identity.

My finishing poem here on Mustafas Legendary Blog:

Kemalistan of Ergenekon ( I dedicate this poem to Parviz):

I was gonna establish a modern republic until I got drunk
I was gonna get up and educate my people but then I got drunk
My republic is still messed up and I know why (Why Kemalistan?)
-cause I got drunk, cause I got drunk, cause I got drunk

I was gonna give my women rights before I got drunk
I was gonna get up and find the problem with the Ottoman Empire but then I got drunk

I was gonna create a modern education system before I got drunk
I could cheated and get a Uni among the best 500 Unis in the world but then I god drunk

I tried to get the people to work but then I got drunk
I just wanted them to live in welfare and peace but I got drunk
Now I am still oppressing them and I know why (Why Kemalistan?) yeah yeah
-cause I got drunk, cause I got drunk, cause got drunk

I was gonna establish a state governed by law before I got drunk
I was gonna give them rule of law but then I got drunk again and sent most of them to courts (But why Kemalistan?) yeah yeah,
-cause I got drunk, cause I got drunk, cause I got drunk

I was gonna establish a western democracy before I got drunk and ended up in Leningrad

I messed up my entire republic because I got drunk
I lost my people and my friends because I got drunk
Lalalalalalala!

Cingöz:

Ikinci Cumhuriyet (help me translate it to english please-The Second and Democratic Republic?) is the goal- are you with me my dear fellow countrylady?

I will always believe in democracy in Turkey as long as we have these guys and girls:

YOUNG CIVILIANS OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF TURKEY!

http://www.gencsiviller.net/cat.php?categories_id=30

Let us be like Emin Cölasan and save the republic!